The Referee Forum: "Hand ball" in Man U-Swansea game. Jan 2, 2015 - The Referee Forum

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"Hand ball" in Man U-Swansea game. Jan 2, 2015

#1 User is offline   barstewart 

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Posted 03 January 2016 - 01:04 AM

Sorry, no video to post (perhaps someone can coach me on how to capture a short clip and post it here. As well, I'm not sure I can even capture an EPL game on the internet, in Canada. "Not available in your jurisdiction" is a common message.)

At about 58:30 into the Jan. 2 match, there was a high cross-pass in Man U's defensive end. It was a rainy/slippery day and the defender receiving the pass botched it and the ball hit the ground and appeared to bounce up to his outstretched arm. He then got control of the ball and nearby Swansea players threw up their hands in protest. The ref didn't care and play continued.

I'm pretty liberal, myself, letting many hand contacts go uncalled, as I've judge them to be not deliberate… but this one was a dark shade of grey. I wonder if the same contact was made in the PA: would the ref have made the same call?

#2 User is offline   Refelee 

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Posted 03 January 2016 - 03:38 AM

View Postbarstewart, on 03 January 2016 - 04:04 AM, said:

Sorry, no video to post (perhaps someone can coach me on how to capture a short clip and post it here. As well, I'm not sure I can even capture an EPL game on the internet, in Canada. "Not available in your jurisdiction" is a common message.)

At about 58:30 into the Jan. 2 match, there was a high cross-pass in Man U's defensive end. It was a rainy/slippery day and the defender receiving the pass botched it and the ball hit the ground and appeared to bounce up to his outstretched arm. He then got control of the ball and nearby Swansea players threw up their hands in protest. The ref didn't care and play continued.

I'm pretty liberal, myself, letting many hand contacts go uncalled, as I've judge them to be not deliberate… but this one was a dark shade of grey. I wonder if the same contact was made in the PA: would the ref have made the same call?

You say "the ball hit the ground and appeared to bounce up to his outstretched arm." So by that description, it sounds like ball to hand, i.e. no offence (which is how I saw it). The fact that he "then got control of the ball" is immaterial, assuming the original ball/hand contact was non-deliberate.

And I'm pretty sure the ref would have made the same call in the penalty area, especially since, as I recall it, he did make a similar "no deliberate contact" call for an incident in the Man U 18-yard box - and for the same player, if I'm not mistaken.

This post has been edited by Refelee: 03 January 2016 - 03:39 AM


#3 User is offline   barstewart 

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Posted 03 January 2016 - 04:50 AM

View PostRefelee, on 02 January 2016 - 07:38 PM, said:

You say "the ball hit the ground and appeared to bounce up to his outstretched arm." So by that description, it sounds like ball to hand, i.e. no offence (which is how I saw it). The fact that he "then got control of the ball" is immaterial, assuming the original ball/hand contact was non-deliberate.

And I'm pretty sure the ref would have made the same call in the penalty area, especially since, as I recall it, he did make a similar "no deliberate contact" call for an incident in the Man U 18-yard box - and for the same player, if I'm not mistaken.


Thanks for the reply. I didn't see the whole game, so missed the other no-call. On the play I'm talking about, many refs — and most opposing players — would take a dim view of the player's arm being away from his side when the ball contacted it. I'd say it was a natural position on that play, to maintain his balance.

It sounds like this ref, you and I have a similar way of viewing a hand ball: not just "seeing" the contact, which anyone can see… but also assessing the deliberate/ non-deliberate nature of the play. Seeing it non-called that way in an EPL game affirms that I have at least that part of my reffing on the correct path.

Now, if I could just convince the curmudgeons I play with that not every contact is a hand ball...

Cheers

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