[Dec]

I have been told that I am nominated for level 4 but what happens next?

When will I be told if I have been accepted or not?

What are the chances of achieving it given that I will definately pass the fitness test (so long as I am injury free)and have decent assessors marks?

Will my age (18) count against me?

Thanks in advance.

[Fatlad]

I presume that this means your county have nominated you to the FA. As far as I'm aware this means that the FA will consider your credentials along with all the other nominees. They will then select a certain number (I think it was something like 40% of those nominated in my county last time) to be invited to take the fitness test (again !). If you pass this you're on !!

Reasons for being rejected at this stage could be your club marks not being high enough, your assessor average not being high enough, not having reffed/assisted enough games in the marking season, poor admin, too many closed dates, etc. etc.

If you're happy that none of the above will cause you a problem and, seemingly, fitness won't be an issue, your chances appear good.
The fact that you're 18 makes promotion more likely rather than counting against you. The powers that be are desperate to lower the average ages of referees throughout the system. Ultimately, they are trying to plan for the next few generations of FIFA officials. Prepare to be fast-tracked !!

[Fatlad]

Just like I was

This post has been edited by Fatlad: 19 January 2010 - 01:22 PM

[Dec]

Thanks fatlad that does help.

I have been told that I have the fitness test on the 1st Feb. If what you said is right (about me just having to pass and im on), when will I hear for sure that they have taken me?

[BigRef]

First of all you need to be sure they have actually promoted you to level 5. That usually doesn't come out until mid-March

Then the County FA submits the names of those it wants to go to level 4 to the FA at Wembley. They assess how many new guys they need and then select those it wants.

I suspect it will be May before you hear anything. When I got to level 5 I knew I was top of the list to go to level 4 becauseof my marks, etc. However it wasn't until May that I got the official confirmation

For a frank assessment of your chances you'd best talk to your RDO at the County FA. He will have more of an idea where you are compared to anyone else hoping to move into the supply middle.

Good luck!

[RustyRef]

You need to be in the top 50% of the club marks for all leagues that you referee on (at least I think this is still a requirement). You should have been assessed at least three times between 01/03/09 and 28/02/10 and need a good average mark from these. On top of that you must have been assistant referee on at least five senior level games (e.g. supply league, senior county league, senior county cup) between 01/03/09 and 28/02/10.

Assuming you tick all those boxes, and pass your county fitness test in February, your county will submit a nomination for you to the FA Refereeing team at Wembley. What then happens largely depends on how many new level 4s they need in your region, and this is determined by how many are demoted back down to level 5, how many are promoted to level 3, how many are demoted from level 3 to 4, how many indicate that they are not carrying on at level 4 for next season, and geographical requirements (it would be pointless having 20 level 4s in one county and 1 in the neighbouring one ..!).

There's nothing you can do to influence any of this, so all you can do is make sure you meet the requirements and pass the fitness test, and if selected you will receive a letter or email, probably sometime in May, asking you to choose a fitness test and an evening seminar date and location. Once you've passed / attended these you will be reclassified as a level 4.

[Dec]

Thanks everyone.
I took Bigrefs advice and have asked my RDO what my chances are.

[Feeky Chucker]

Thanks everyone.
I took Bigrefs advice and have asked my RDO what my chances are.

so, what's he said?

[Dec]

He's out of office until Thursday.

[RustyRef]

He's out of office until Thursday.

As well as asking what your RDO thinks you need to be clear yourself whether you are confident enough to make the step up. It's not clear whether you are doing the double jump which would make level 4 a triple jump, or whether you were a level 6 already. 6 to 4 is a big jump, 7 to 4 is huge and you need to be sure you are ready for it. Why not go and watch a supply league marking game (assuming you don't already line at that level) so that you can see a level 4 in action, the standard of football, how teams behave, what is different to parks football, etc. Or do you know any level 4s in your county, if so perhaps he could take you along to one of his games so you get an idea of how everything works. Perhaps he could go and watch you in action to give you some advice on what might need to change in your game if you get the level 4.

I'm not trying to put you or anyone off, but I have seen a few referees where it has been a step too far and a couple of iffy first games have destroyed their confidence. On the flip side I have seen one guy who went 7-4 and took to it like he had been there for years. There is an argument that you might as well go for it even if you're not sure if you are ready, as you get a years grace and can't be removed in your first season. Only you know how confident you are, but you might as well make use of the tools and opportunities available to you to help decide this.

[Dec]

I ama 6 at the moment.

Ive been reffing since I was 14, doing senior league lines since I was 16 but I see your point.
I honestly feel like I am more than ready...I am doing level 5 games at the moment and finding it more than ok. In the county I am refereeing in, I have been told that there is very little difference in the standard of play.

Of course though I know it will be harder, as every decision becomes that little bit more contested (e.g. throw on the half way line) although I think this is true every times you move up a league.

[Fatlad]

Not having a pop or casting any doubts on your ability, but reffing "level 5 games" and officiating on a supply league are massively different in my experience. I remember making the jump 3 seasons ago and it really is a large step up. If you don't prepare yourself for this step up it could be quite a shock.

Round here a level 5 will rarely referee under floodlights in front of paying crowds of 100-150. The players they are used to dealing with won't be paid up to £100 per game. The games are faster and mean more. All this brings added pressure. Then there is the assessors - their expectations are also higher. You can find that a performance that you would be quite pleased with one season can receive a disappointing mark (not to mention the criticism on fans forums, club websites and in the local media !). Acting as an AR on the contributory system is an even bigger eye-opener.

That said, the vast majority cope with the promotion. Just make sure you go into it with your eyes open (assuming that you are lucky enough to get promoted).

[RustyRef]

Not having a pop or casting any doubts on your ability, but reffing "level 5 games" and officiating on a supply league are massively different in my experience. I remember making the jump 3 seasons ago and it really is a large step up. If you don't prepare yourself for this step up it could be quite a shock.

Round here a level 5 will rarely referee under floodlights in front of paying crowds of 100-150. The players they are used to dealing with won't be paid up to £100 per game. The games are faster and mean more. All this brings added pressure. Then there is the assessors - their expectations are also higher. You can find that a performance that you would be quite pleased with one season can receive a disappointing mark (not to mention the criticism on fans forums, club websites and in the local media !). Acting as an AR on the contributory system is an even bigger eye-opener.

That said, the vast majority cope with the promotion. Just make sure you go into it with your eyes open (assuming that you are lucky enough to get promoted).

Indeed, there are big differences between level 5 leagues, such as senior county leagues, and supply / contrib leagues. And to go with this expectations on the referees are greater. Not just on the pitch but administration and availability, particularly short notice availability. It's unlikely that a county league secretary will phone you at 4pm on a Tuesday, ask you what you're doing tonight, and once you've told him you'll be told "not any more you're not, you're going to such and such to replace such and such". FA and supply league officers definitely will, and saying no isn't an option (unless you've already closed that date) ..!

Dec, it sounds like you are confident in your ability, which is obviously good. But don't let anyone tell you that a level 5 county league is the same standard as a supply league, as 90% of times it won't be. Even if it is, you won't just be operating on a supply league, but also a step 3 or 4 contributory league, and that is most certainly a step up from any lining you will have ever done.

[Mewcenary]

Acting as an AR on the contributory system is an even bigger eye-opener.

Why is this? I presume you mean along the lines of closer proximity to the hoards throughout the game, but still curious.

[Mewcenary]

For my own sins, I started in September and have about 25-30 games under my belt now (youth, open age, running the line on a 'higher' league). Oh, and a level 7 obviously.

Am, slightly frustrated that I can't apply for promotion to occur during the next season... the deadline is February to apply and I can't fulfill the 'Reffing for at least a full season or one year' criteria. It's a shame there is no flexibility as surely starting in September and doing 40+ games is pretty good too!

If I was assessed and told "You're not ready yet" then I'd accept that. Just irritated with the 'Nope, you have to WAIT' automatic response.

[Dec]

Iain S, I got an early reply saying that it is 'looking good'. He also added that all of the nominees last year were accepted, a trend that I hope continues into this year.

I have a few trial games coming up on the supply league which I am sure will allow me to adjust to the situations which you have described.

[RustyRef]

Why is this? I presume you mean along the lines of closer proximity to the hoards throughout the game, but still curious.

I think he just means it is a lot more high profile. You can easily have 1000+ people in the stand behind you, press coverage is much higher, there are a lot of ex pros either playing or managing, etc. Up until Setanta went under it could even be televised if you had a Blue Square North / South or Setanta Shield game.

[Fozzee]

I think he just means it is a lot more high profile. You can easily have 1000+ people in the stand behind you, press coverage is much higher, there are a lot of ex pros either playing or managing, etc. Up until Setanta went under it could even be televised if you had a Blue Square North / South or Setanta Shield game.

Setanta???

[Fozzee]

For my own sins, I started in September and have about 25-30 games under my belt now (youth, open age, running the line on a 'higher' league). Oh, and a level 7 obviously.

Am, slightly frustrated that I can't apply for promotion to occur during the next season... the deadline is February to apply and I can't fulfill the 'Reffing for at least a full season or one year' criteria. It's a shame there is no flexibility as surely starting in September and doing 40+ games is pretty good too!

If I was assessed and told "You're not ready yet" then I'd accept that. Just irritated with the 'Nope, you have to WAIT' automatic response.

I qualified in March 2008 and was in a similar position. In the 2008-2009 season I completed over 100 games and I assisted on the supply league too. I too was frustrated I couldn't apply for promotion in that first season but I now think it was probably for the best. I could complete that first season not feeling under any pressure and could go out and try different things and just learn.
This season I applied for 7-5 promotion andi am hopefully now only one good assessment away from completing that.
Just go out and enjoy it this year and like I say try different things then you will be more confident moving onto the next stage next season. Hampshire encourage 7-5 promotion so if you feel confident you can always try that. Remember your qualifying games will start in March.

On a sidenote it was great to back out on the field of play last night

This post has been edited by Fozzee: 20 January 2010 - 01:25 PM

[RustyRef]

Setanta???

Yes, they had the contract for Blue Square games until they went bankrupt. Granted not many people watched it, hence why no-one else has taken over the contract.

[Fatlad]

I think he just means it is a lot more high profile. You can easily have 1000+ people in the stand behind you, press coverage is much higher, there are a lot of ex pros either playing or managing, etc. Up until Setanta went under it could even be televised if you had a Blue Square North / South or Setanta Shield game.

Exactly. I can't imagine that you would get anywhere near what a top contrib game involves as a level 5. 1500 fans at Barrow on a freezing Tuesday night anyone (before they got promoted to the Conference, obviously) ?

[Fozzee]

Yes, they had the contract for Blue Square games until they went bankrupt. Granted not many people watched it, hence why no-one else has taken over the contract.

I know but it isn't called that now and I was just ridiculing Setanta as they were a bunch of shysters!!

[Lord Astwick]

I know but it isn't called that now and I was just ridiculing Setanta as they were a bunch of shysters!!

Sounds like someone paid money up front............

[Fozzee]

Sounds like someone paid money up front............

Nah but had serious problems cancelling contract a couple of years back.

[Dec]

Just a quick update:

I had a development match with 2 assts saturday. Received a mark of 75. Is this a good mark at that level? I have an average of 85 for my 6-5 but I am now being looked at to 4. Is 75 ok?

N.B. I have one more development game before the panel meet to decide who to put forward.

[RustyRef]

Just a quick update:

I had a development match with 2 assts saturday. Received a mark of 75. Is this a good mark at that level? I have an average of 85 for my 6-5 but I am now being looked at to 4. Is 75 ok?

N.B. I have one more development game before the panel meet to decide who to put forward.

It depends what level of game it was, but 75 in a supply league game itself would be almost certainly above the league average. It really depends on what competencies the assessor was working to - i.e. those required by a level 5 or those required by a level 4. Unless he is actually a supply league assessor it is likely to be the former.

Either way though 75 is a good mark.

[Dec]

Just a quick update:

I got my level and will be nominated next week for my 4.

I will let you know when I hear back if I was successful or not. I am not holding my breath and I am satisfied with my 5 as I am still only 18.

Thanks for all your advise and insight once again

[Fozzee]

Just a quick update:

I got my level and will be nominated next week for my 4.

I will let you know when I hear back if I was successful or not. I am not holding my breath and I am satisfied with my 5 as I am still only 18.

Thanks for all your advise and insight once again

Got your level what ? I assume you meant to say Level 5. How do you know that already when the promotion season isn't even over and the promotion board wouldn't even have met?

[Dec]

Yes I did mean 5.
I received a letter today from the county. I presume all of the 6-4's found out early. I assume that its beacause they wouldnt nominate people for 4 if they had not already made up their minds long before that they would at least be level 5's??

[RustyRef]

Yes I did mean 5.
I received a letter today from the county. I presume all of the 6-4's found out early. I assume that its beacause they wouldnt nominate people for 4 if they had not already made up their minds long before that they would at least be level 5's??

I am confused. How have a county FA informed who is being promoted before the promotion season has even finished?

[Dec]

I wouldnt know. I suspect its beause they are now looking at us to level 4 giving us development games and may have seen enough?

[Fozzee]

I am confused. How have a county FA informed who is being promoted before the promotion season has even finished?

another example of a county FA making up it's own rules. Just like those counties who don't make promotion candidates do a full season before applying.

[jacquesy]

As long as they are promoting the right people for the right reasons then it's not really an issue to send out letters early if it's a statistical reason then that will only be bad for the game in long term (not casting doubt on your ability original poster).

I watched a game last saturday a Level 5 who I was informed was almost a dead cert to become level 4 as he had been nominated and his positioning was shocking. The assessor even said that but then said "he'll get a good mark, he's been nominated for Level 4". After hearing that I was happy not to be affiliated with the County FA

[Tealeaf]

Promotion board meets in two weeks here so fingers crossed for 5. Had the three assessments and no more so should be ok. There were mutterings of an extension to the assessing period, but nothing official from my RDO. Won't be a L4 nomination though.
A lap short on the county fitness test sadly. Still always next year.

[Fatlad]

A lap short ?

My daughter did 2000m in the Cooper Test at school yesterday. She's 12. :huh:

[TimeRef]

Fatlad, on 10 March 2010 - 07:57 PM, said:

A lap short ?

My daughter did 2000m in the Cooper Test at school yesterday. She's 12. :huh:

Showing daddy it can be done... :lol:

[Tealeaf]

Bronchitis is a bitch

[Tealeaf]

Damned board keeps eating posts and won't let me edit.

Bronchitis is a bitch and ruined my preparation. 4 weeks without being able to train will make it difficult for anybody.

[Dec]

I had my final assessment last night for the level 4 nomination.

I was told that there are 4 others put forward by the county...fingers crossed.

[DommerOFK]

Fozzee, on 26 February 2010 - 06:10 PM, said:

<!--quoteo(post=142817:date=Feb 26 2010, 03:40 PM:name=RustyRef)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RustyRef @ Feb 26 2010, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=142817"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am confused. How have a county FA informed who is being promoted before the promotion season has even finished?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

another example of a county FA making up it's own rules. Just like those counties who don't make promotion candidates do a full season before applying.

Have also heard rumours of a referee with another County who got their 7-6 despite the fact that they refereed a fair majority (some 90% of their final season's total) of their matches on a League whose games were not actually of the required standard to be counted as Promotionable games.

Have also heard of the "not doing a full season" thing with other CFAs as well as a referee being promoted by another County on condition that "They do a requisite number of relevant standard matches in the next marking season" - basically saying "You've not done your 20 or so matches within a single season - don't worry - do the other 4 or 5 in the first month of the new marking season and we'll promote you anyway"

[Lord Astwick]

Fozzee, on 26 February 2010 - 06:10 PM, said:

You sound quite bitter. Football refereeing is like 'real life', you take the opportunities that are available, or not as the case may be.

Three years ago, I started my first promotion year twelve weeks after I qualified, and then went 7 > 6 > 5. So maybe 'rules are made to be broken', and individual circumstances (in my case thirty plus years of playing) should be taken into

You sound quite bitter. Football refereeing is like 'real life', you take the opportunities that are available, or not as the case may be.

Three years ago, I started my first promotion year twelve weeks after I qualified, and then went 7 > 6 > 5. So maybe 'rules are made to be broken', and individual circumstances (in my case thirty plus years of playing) should be taken into account.

[Fozzee]

Lord Astwick, on 30 March 2010 - 10:23 PM, said:

You sound quite bitter. Football refereeing is like 'real life', you take the opportunities that are available, or not as the case may be.

Three years ago, I started my first promotion year twelve weeks after I qualified, and then went 7 > 6 > 5. So maybe 'rules are made to be broken', and individual circumstances (in my case thirty plus years of playing) should be taken into account.

I presume you meant to quote my comment about counties allowing promotion candidates before completing one year of refereeing?
I am a level 5 after only two years of refereeing so I am not sure what I have to be bitter about!! A somewhat foolish comment from you there m'lud!!

[thomas21]

I have been nominated but I am unsure as to what happens next.
Does anyone know when the letters come out and how likely you are to get the promotion if you have been nominated?

[BigRef]

In the past the FA have taken between 30% and 50% of those nominated, although this year I see my county has cut back on the number they are nominating quite dramatically. We could be quite short of level 4s next season as there are a number retiring and only two nominated (and one of those will struggle with the fitness test). I suspect that the FA has given some advice on what standards are expected so as to cut down the number of people who are disappointed.

If you are accepted you'll probably hear late May - remember the fitness test is early June.

So I'd suggest that you should keep your fitness levels up and cancel any season ticket you have.

[RustyRef]

BigRef, on 01 April 2010 - 02:21 PM, said:

In the past the FA have taken between 30% and 50% of those nominated, although this year I see my county has cut back on the number they are nominating quite dramatically. We could be quite short of level 4s next season as there are a number retiring and only two nominated (and one of those will struggle with the fitness test). I suspect that the FA has given some advice on what standards are expected so as to cut down the number of people who are disappointed.

If you are accepted you'll probably hear late May - remember the fitness test is early June.

So I'd suggest that you should keep your fitness levels up and cancel any season ticket you have.

Just for info, the FA lifted the ban on level 4s and above holding season tickets at the start of last season. Still not a good idea to have one though as you'll be refereeing most if not every Saturday, and they won't release you to go and watch football.

This post has been edited by RustyRef: 01 April 2010 - 02:30 PM

[Dec]

just to close the thread as promised. I got my letter today and I have been offered my level 4 subject to the fitness test.

Thanks for everyones help on explaining the situation.

[BigRef]

Congratulations Dec!

Now make sure you can get round the track six and a half times!