[Shanghairef]

Hi
Match is in time added on at end of first half. I am allowing 1 minute. As 1 minute is up team A are attacking so I continue.
Player fouled in area - clear penalty.
We have now completed stopage time and I penalty is to be taken as Law 14 allows.
GK saves kick and pushes ball onto post. It rolls back past him and stops almost at edge of six yard box.
I blow for half time as kicker rushes in to put ball into goal.
Was I correct or not in deciding penalty was complete after ;
a) Keeper had saved penalty and therefore penalty was completed (rebound being open play not penalty kick)
or
Ball ceased moving forward as well as actual motion stopped therfore penalty cvompleted.

Opinions please.

[maninblack]

by the way you describe it yes you were correct to blow as the outcome of the penalty kick had been decided. keeper has saved it and the ball has stopped, at that point the whistle is blown, for ball to go in the goal someone has to do something to make ball move again

[BigRef]

The kicker has just the one chance to score. If the ball comes back then hit the whistle hard and quick.

Generally you should stop the game as soon as the ball stops its forward motion, but should the ball strike the post/keeper and have such backspin on it that it bounces in you will allow the goal.

(Generally I like to kick off again after a goal in added time, especially if the game is tight. Otherwise you get the shouts of "You only played until THEY scored".)

[Mewcenary]

This does remind me of something that happened in a recent game.

Time had run out but I followed the 'convention' of letting the current attack finish. As soon as the keeper punched it out that it was it as far as I was concerned otherwise we'd go on forever. Whistle blown.

Goal scored 2 seconds later as someone blammed it first touch into the goal.

The team complained in a good natured way (as they had just won 3-1 anyway) but could I have done anything better?

[Goldfish]

Hi Shanghairef
Yes you were correct in law. However the management of this situation is very important and the referee can save himself a lot of grief if a little time is spent to set it up properly. Teams are informed including the kicker that this is the final kick of the half and that rebounds will not be allowed. While the referee can't insist where players stand on the PK he can encourage them 'not to bother' following up as the whistle will blow should a goal not be scored. That can be a casual remark to the players that they do not need to take up the traditional positions for a PK.
Once there is no hope of a goal and the ball is heading back into play a loud blast on the whistle will announce the end of the half.

This post has been edited by Goldfish: 06 February 2010 - 05:04 PM

[timtheref]

I agree with Goldfish. What you did was correct, although a quick announcement to the players that time has not expired, and is being extended only for the PK, you would save yourself any trouble. Learned this lesson the hard way myself.

[Futsal1st]

I agree with Goldfish. What you did was correct, although a quick announcement to the players that time has not expired, and is being extended only for the PK, you would save yourself any trouble. Learned this lesson the hard way myself.

Agree with timtheref. BTW at grass roots level, I would hit the whistle when time is up, in your case at time + 1 minute. If they didn't score before that time, tuff. Law 7 does not say you must wait for an attack to finish. To me fairness is by the watch, not when a specific attack is completed.

[Sundial]

I had similar in one of my games at the weekend . Into final seconds of stoppage time towards the end of the match , player gets fouled in the area . I blow up for the penalty and tell all the players that this will be the last kick of the match . Keeper saves the shot , I blow up for full-time just as the player puts the rebound in the net . No goal and the player that put the ball in the net half-heartedly asked me if he could have the goal , no says I as you heard what I said " that it was to be the last kick of the match " , " just thought I would ask ref " he says with a grin . He was happy , as he had already scored two anyway , but I think he wanted to claim his hat-trick .

That was not my excuse for not allowing the goal to stand though just in case somebody thinks so .

[maninblack]

agree with blowing as 45 is up, my watch will vibrate at 45 mins and i blow then no matter where ball is, have been told i cant blow while they attacking, i cant blow untill they have took corner. you see it a lot in premiership the ref waits for a corner then blows when clearly time is up before corner is taken, to me if a goal is scored from that corner it is scored after time is up and ref should have blown before corner is taken

[Sundial]

agree with blowing as 45 is up, my watch will vibrate at 45 mins and i blow then no matter where ball is, have been told i cant blow while they attacking, i cant blow untill they have took corner. you see it a lot in premiership the ref waits for a corner then blows when clearly time is up before corner is taken, to me if a goal is scored from that corner it is scored after time is up and ref should have blown before corner is taken

I must say that I have not seen a prem ref blow up after awarding a corner and before the corner is taken , not saying that it does not happen though .

I think it is good practice to blow up for time ended after any attacking move has fizzled out or comes to a conclusion e.g. corner taken and keeper gets possession of the ball or the ball goes in the net or out of play for a goal kick . After that , for me , it is when the ball is in a neutral roughly central position , but one must never blow up before time is up .

Added to which I have never known a game that deserves to be finished spot on 45 minutes as there is always some time to be added regardless , whether it is one minute , five minutes or ten plus minutes .

[Goldfish]

Hi
Everyone knows including the teams that match timing is not an exact science. Time can be added on for substitutions, assessment of injury to players, removal of injured players from the field of play for treatment, wasting time etc.
So how long does it take for a corner, end an attacking move. Probably say 10/15 seconds. So I am of the view that if the ref lets it get to a corner in the 1st place he/she should see that play out. Ten to fifteen seconds of time lost in 45 minutes is not hard to find.

[maninblack]

what i meant was i blow when my watch says 45 mins and that is the watch i stop for injuries etc, if the ball is out for a corner and it vibrates for 45 then i blow,,,,,,if players are on edge of penalty area and looking ot play the ball in and defenders are trying to stop them then i blow. seen one on tv the ref gave a throw in, player took his time ref looked at watch and held whistle close to his mouth and shouted for player to take it, player threw ball as soon as ball left his hands ref blows for full time, there is nothing in laws of game to allow time to be added on for an attack to finish or a corner taken, or eve sometime a goalkick to be taken

[RustyRef]

what i meant was i blow when my watch says 45 mins and that is the watch i stop for injuries etc, if the ball is out for a corner and it vibrates for 45 then i blow,,,,,,if players are on edge of penalty area and looking ot play the ball in and defenders are trying to stop them then i blow. seen one on tv the ref gave a throw in, player took his time ref looked at watch and held whistle close to his mouth and shouted for player to take it, player threw ball as soon as ball left his hands ref blows for full time, there is nothing in laws of game to allow time to be added on for an attack to finish or a corner taken, or eve sometime a goalkick to be taken

The problem is Graeme Poll and Clive Thomas both took that approach and both regretted it as they both blew for full time in World Cup games just as a corner came in and an attacker player was about to head it in. It's a daft thing to do, and is just making controversy for yourself.

Remember as well that referees at that level very rarely stop their watches during the game and instead estimate added time, so there isn't going to be a time when the clock hits 45 or zero other than when it has been running normally.

[Shanghairef]

Thanks guys.
Only just got chance to log back on and read the replies.
The advice for managing the situation by telling the players before the klck not to bother looking for rebound is sound.
Hope I am never in the situation again but at least now I can handle it better.
Cheers Shanghai ref